Curse

R_Frost · Mar 24, 2008, 02:23 AM // 02:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gaile Gray
I have spoken with the design team, and they do not intend to increase the number of heroes in a party either for normal mode or Hard Mode. As I have said before, the maximum number fulfills many design objectives, and the primary reason for not making a chance is that the team does not want to disincent someone from playing in a party with other people, and the change requested leaves little doubt that this would occur. Secondary reasons include but are not limited to: Not being able to control the number of heroes which results in the inability to use them as intended (having them sort of be "super henchmen" without the delicacy of control and an essential interaction between leader and heroes), or, if used as intended, having an extremely cluttered interface that makes it difficult to play the game with ease and enjoyment. (That of course could lead to the request to alter the interface to use the number of heroes that is in fact higher than intended, and that is not planned nor part of the schedule, obviously.)

alot has changed since the release of nightfall. if the developers are still sticking to this theory they need to visit a doctor and have their heads removed from their..........um u get the idea. the developers screwed up by adding more heros in EoTN. if they are sticking to the 3 max they shouldnt of given us more to choose from. sure 7 heros could be overpowered but its PvE who cares. they dont seem to care, they gave us PvE only skills dure to their inability to balance both PvE and PvP at the same time then in turn nerf some PvE skills because they think they are over powered yet leave some alone. im like many who only teams up with my guild, alliance or my hero/hench team. ive put off doing missions for days to avoid Pug's. i dont get to spend as much time in game as i did a year ago but when i do spend time i want to do things once and not have to repeat do to some thinks he knows it all pug who either wont listen or causes a party wipe. H/H also gives me the ability to play at my pace. everything isnt about speed. theres time when i sit down and start something then have to get up and walk away for 10min or more due to real life stuff around the house. H/H dont get pissed and leave when that happens and i dont have to restart later because everything is the way i left it at that time.

Numa Pompilius · Mar 24, 2008, 02:24 AM // 02:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiragi Yagami

i honestly think the game is fine as it is. ursan is fine, and 3 heroes is fine. do people honestly think the game is hard enough that you NEED 7 heroes? the only place i can see that being an asset would be vanquishing, and even then, a bit much.

Underworld, Fissure of Woe, Domain of Anguish, The Deep, and Urgoz Warren.

I don't need them for vanquishing, but they'd help of course.

EDIT: Or let me fill up with henches. That'll work too. I've done Tombs with H/H and that area is tougher than at least the UW or FoW.

Kiragi Yagami · Mar 24, 2008, 02:34 AM // 02:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Underworld, Fissure of Woe, Domain of Anguish, The Deep, and Urgoz Warren.

I don't need them for vanquishing, but they'd help of course.

EDIT: Or let me fill up with henches. That'll work too. I've done Tombs with H/H and that area is tougher than at least the UW or FoW.

no offence, but in the cases of those places, its often more efficient to have full-human parties. and besides, what with all the problems with hero AI, what do you think 7 heroes would be like? and micro-ing them all, you wouldnt be able to see with all the skillbar interfaces everywhere.

bhavv · Mar 24, 2008, 02:35 AM // 02:35

I would actually now prefer ursanway in fow over 7 heroes any day. Getting to that end chest in HM with 8 drops in a little over an hour is just Rofflecoppter haha nerf this shit already imba.

But I still want 7 heroes for the fun of creating my own bars. I would love to play challenge missions with a full hero team.

Numa Pompilius · Mar 24, 2008, 02:59 AM // 02:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiragi Yagami

no offence, but in the cases of those places, its often more efficient to have full-human parties. and besides, what with all the problems with hero AI, what do you think 7 heroes would be like?

Sure full human is easy. But I'm not interested in efficiency, only in playing what I want to play, when I want to play, at the pace I want to play.

And I think maybe you're overestimating the difficulty of these areas. This was how far I got in the UW with just three heroes, no consumables:

Human teams already have the advantage of being able to use ridiculously overpowered PvE skills - what difference would it make if I was allowed to bring a full team of heroes? I'll never be as efficient as a human team, and it's not like I would PUG either way.
All denying me the use of heroes and/or henches does, is keep me from completing certain areas of the game.

Phoenix Tears · Mar 24, 2008, 03:19 AM // 03:19

Something I told ever, from the begin on, since the release of Nightfall.
Henchman became absolutely USELESS. Just get Heroes with the Basic AI of Henchmen (this includes simple running out of AoE's) and there you have the Hero NPC, that totally kicks henchmens virtual butts ...

Heroes are theoretically nothing els,e, than improved Henchmen, theres no need anymore for the old version of the normal Henchmen, when you have Heroes, and the only reason, why we take yet still Henchmen into our party is, because otherwise we would be only 4/8, due to the limitation of heroes on max 3 >.> so we are forced to take them, to get the team complete (when you don't want to PuG)

Since release of Nightfall, I wanted ever to see the 5 "Lore Heroes" of Guild Wars becoming Hero-Npc.

Who wants not to have Mhenlo, Cynn, Eve, Aidan and Devona as Hero NPC's ? Giving them Skill Builds and Equipment as YOU like, and woudl lvoe to see them also in their Elite-Armors ?

The 6th Lore Hero came now finally with EotN and became direct a playable Hero NPC - I talk about GWEN, she's the missing Mesmer Lore Hero we all missed since prophecies beginning.
However, but really, who needs those douzens of Henchmen, like Danika, Alesia, Argo, Daiman ect pp, which come in ever only with the same weak builds of skills, which often absolutely don't fit very well to the explorable aeras's monsters, lettign you see, how your henchs get wiped in short time, if you - the player would not watch their health and help them out of all situations. Why do we need those henchmen, when we have OVER 20 Hero NPC's ???????

Really absolutely not understandable. these not well thought out things are it over time, hwich really let players think, that Anet cares over time lesser and lesser about what for crap they implement to the time, without thinking twice, which menchanics could be removed then, cause of having implemented a gameplay system, that is way better, than the old version.

This is like, as if you would try to make a Skill balancing, but short before you would make it, you say to yourself, why should I balance the old crap, when I can easily implement something new instead, then I can keep the old stuff, like it is, because players will/should use so or so only the new stuff combined with the old to be efficient in the game... >.>
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Best Steps ANet should do in near future: (if they really instead to correct of their old crap concepts to make the game more fun, because that is it, about what games are in the end ONLY)

- Let Ursan Blessing as it is, people have to accept this Skill, how it is and this Skill already got nerfed from being able to use also range,d this Skill has become a pure Melee Skill, that nerfed the Skill already enough.
Anything else would mean a complete reconcept of the whole Skill and that would not fit anymore to the Lore of the Game... because the bear stands for Strength for the Norn, so should Ursan blessing also be the most powerful Elite of all 3 Blessing and the Effect of increased max Hp and Defense to the strogn Attacks fits simple best to this.
All 3 Elites give you a Running Skill, all 3 have an AoE Effect Skill, all 3 have a Condition Skill. All 3 are fine imo.

UB easily changed 2 problems, the game had over very long time, over that peopel QQ'ed in the same way so much, like all those people, whine whine about UB now, that this skill should be unbalanced.
Both had only a difference. Those people, which complained about those 2 problems, before UB existed, those people had a REAL reason for complaining.
Those people, which QQ now about ursan being imba, those are only all those people now, which whine about UB, because this Skill enables much more players to play effectively the Elite Areas, what leads to their so "high valued" seen items becoming over time more and more lesser valuable.
So those people just QQ, because they are greedy, because they will make over time not so much money anymore, than what they did, before UB existed ... but THAT'S LIFE... money is not only parked for hardcore gamers, which were the luckers, that they could farm certain spots effectively first to make the most money out of their loot, before the huge croud of others follows over time, until the place gets overfarmed >.>

UB easily solved as said 2 problems and those were the ever hated "Class Discrimination" , because as ursan its somewhat of regardless, what a Class you play, you just need only soem teddy bears and monks.

The other problem is the ever the same problem about casual gamers and peopel not PuGing, so that you can easily end up, just wastign your time in search for a party in town... UB makes this really simple, you can create with ursanway very easily party, because you simpel have only to search for 2 things and 6 ursans are extreme quick found, once you're 6/8, the last 2 monks are usually quick found too and unless you find none and you do nothign special, like DoA, you can take also 2 hero monks instead with the typical used Duo-HB build, with 6 ursans and 2 monk heroes u can easily vanguish also anything in GW ...

next point
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- Remove all Henchmen-Npc's out of Towns ect. and make out of the Lore Heroes Hero NPC's, because they are from all henchmen the only one,s which are really interesting as heroes. As Lore Hero of factions also counts Nika, NF had no Henchmen, that has anythign of being like a Lore Hero, like Mhenlo, Cynn, Nika and Co., but if I had to say a name, I'd say, make Gehraz, the Dervish the Lore Hero of NF to have a 3rd Derv Hero...woudl be surely interestign as Derv Player with 3 Derv heroes in your party, each one being in a different Avatar Form lol, at least then 4/5 of all avatars in the team then XD by playing with Heroes only
*******

- After that, we will have only Heroes left as "Henchmen", Anet should enable then 7 Hero Parties, so that we can make group builds as we want, without limitations...
*******

- After this step, enable Heroes to use all PvE-only Skills, EXCEPT any of the 3 Elite Blessign Skills of the Norn-Skill Line
*******

- When the step above is done, implement into the game a system, how we players can unlock OUR OWN CHARACTERS on our accounts as Hero NPC's

For example:

A character has to play through all campaigns and EotN on Hard Mode and has to reach "people know me" of KoaBD first. Only when doen this, a character of an account becomes unlocked for general usage as Hero NPC for other characters on the same account.

And before a character will be able to have an other character of the same account as Hero, that character must reach fist Level 20 and has to fulfill some special quests first to become able to invite your accoutn characters into your party as hero NPC's, because your own characters start naturally direct with lvl 20, they are not, like the Standart heroes, which start with beginner equipment and a low level, which need to be trained first to Lvl 20.

So a character, who wants other characters of the ame accoutn as hero npc's, must fit naturaly fist too some conditions and that means being on same level first. (clear, so that people won't start as level 1 charas in proph presering with one lvl 20 MM hero companion)
This would be then the perfect top of the ice berg of perfecness, anet could do about the Hero System.

With these changes, the Hero System would make absolutely most FUN, the only stuff that needs then to be improved still is the whole Control System around Hero NPC's.

We simple need more and better Command options for heroes, like telling them, in which kind of formation they should run, a simple command like "Spread out!!" would help is SOOOOO MANY situations in the game, seeing, how your group will split up then, so that AoE's and other wide spreaded attacks won't hit all, but only as lessest characters, as possible.

or a simple command like "Retreat!!" would help also, lettign all heroes just follow you immetiatle, all heroes stopping immetialy fighting or charging foes ect. maybe with a little speed buff bonus of 10% or so for 2 seconds, so that they reach quick the player and can follow thee player immetiately)

Also build specific commands would be good, like as when you have a trapper in your party, that you can command the trapper, where he has to set traps... so that you can draw on the field then a line or so, where the trapper has everywhere to set traps for you. ANd the trapper wil trap then everywhere at a point system along your drawed line of the field, until he finished his job, or runs out of energy...

The mechanics of commands for heroes need simple to become better, 3 command way is simple to cheap - Attack ,Defend, Do Nothing is simple not enough very often.
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However, to come to an end and to say a final note about the topic:

7 Heroes will be NEVER more powerful, than a PuG team out of 6 Ursans and 2 Monk players.

7 Heroes will be even never more powerful, than a normal european balanced group build PuG, due to the simple fact, that real players react simple much better, cause of a better intelligence. real players can much better react on changes, than npc's with their static builds and real players can fight together with a much better synergy, than npc's will ever due to the fact, that the dumb AI can't play as good many skills out, like players can...

Best Example: the Skill Arcane Echo: while a real player combines this skill EVER with the most effective combination, the dumb AI combines Arcane Echo randomly with all skills in the build >.<, the AI has absolutely no clue about the good skill synergies, like players CAN have.

aapo · Mar 24, 2008, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stolen Souls

Thing is, that it wouldn't destroy them any more. People that still want to PuG...still would...

Why can't people understand that? >_>

- Beats me. Major reason for lack of PUGing is the lack of groups for anything other than a few elite areas. When groups form, they suck. Efficiency is not the reason to make a PUG, but it's the reason to ask for 7 heroes. Those who PUG, PUG because of the desired social element, which goes past the outcome of mission. Those who don't PUG do it for effectiveness. 3 or 7 heroes, nothing changes. I don't know what is so hard to understand here.

Phoenix Tears · Mar 24, 2008, 03:53 AM // 03:53

Uhm, I know my english is not the best and I'm sure, the whole forum knows this in the meanwhiel too

, but I've overlooked my last post and I'm personally shocked over myself, how much typos are in it.

Tomorrow I've to edit my posting XD In this posting I can really see, that I#ve posted it in the late night lol *sleepy* zzzzzzzzzzzzz

<dhljsfhkjx.dfnh *ouch that was now my head XD, I've to go to bed ^^

bhavv · Mar 24, 2008, 04:00 AM // 04:00

Phoenix tears you win the thread!

Except I would remove the requirements of using your other characters as heroes and allow any character that has finished the campaign be available as a hero in that campaign.

You have honestly described what would be the most awesome game on the face of this planet, its really a shame that there arent any games that allow full party customisation and character creation, except for baldurs gate and icewind dale.

Gun Pierson · Mar 24, 2008, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by bhavv

Phoenix tears you win the thread!

Except I would remove the requirements of using your other characters as heroes and allow any character that has finished the campaign be available as a hero in that campaign.

You have honestly described what would be the most awesome game on the face of this planet, its really a shame that there arent any games that allow full party customisation and character creation, except for baldurs gate and icewind dale.

Yeah I pm him for his constructive post as time went into that on. Btw Baldur's Gate and Icewind dale series were great. It's interesting to spot you played these games too.

bhavv · Mar 24, 2008, 04:46 AM // 04:46

Baldurs gate 2 = best game ever ever ever... No wait a minute, civilization 2 is

Civ 2 and BG1 were my first ever decent games on the PC after constantly playing shit like aladin, lion king and donald duck lmao.

Addiction followed

Tyla · Mar 24, 2008, 04:55 AM // 04:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiragi Yagami

i honestly think the game is fine as it is. ursan is fine, and 3 heroes is fine. do people honestly think the game is hard enough that you NEED Ursan? the only place i can see that being an asset would be vanquishing, and even then, a bit much.

Fix'd
Last time I checked Heroes don't have access to PvE-only skills.

Redfeather1975 · Mar 24, 2008, 05:17 AM // 05:17

I would think it better if many overly effective builds were made less effective, and PvE content changed so that people had to greatly vary their team builds to work through content.
I don't like the idea of the same builds being used everywhere and skill points piling up because people don't need more than a few builds for most of PvE.

I think 3 heroes per player is the farthest it'll go because you need a minimum of 2 people to do. If you only need 1 person to have a hero party, it'll be even more quiet in most outposts.

SpiritThief · Mar 24, 2008, 05:30 AM // 05:30

Why even worry? Guild Wars is a broken game, just get used to it.

Think of how many things are wrong/missing.

7 heroes
Better contorl over those heroes/pets
Any method of selling items besides spam
Guilds with little options
etc, etc

Just get used to it. You really think they are going to change anything? They should have redone number 3 in my list way way before Nightfall or even Factions. Just have to deal with it, I see no change ever.

Redfeather1975 · Mar 24, 2008, 05:32 AM // 05:32

It's probably why they wanted to make a GW2. Because all the changes and additions they wanted to make weren't going to fit in with what was already part of the game without having to do a serious overhaul.

Coloneh · Mar 24, 2008, 06:30 AM // 06:30

why is there a thread for this? she didnt say anything...

RhanoctJocosa · Mar 24, 2008, 06:36 AM // 06:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coloneh

why is there a thread for this? she didnt say anything...

Riverside for you ^_^

I reckon ANet *might* nerf ursan down to a state where it's still usable to do hm fow/uw but not DoA, seeing as it's actually been a good thing for FoW/UW.

As for 7 heroes, not even ANet are that bad ^_^

upier · Mar 24, 2008, 06:58 AM // 06:58

Oh dear heavens - I hope they don't take this thread the wrong way so I'll put it bluntly ...
Do NOT nerf Ursan to show us how well we have it with only 4 heroes. Ursan = Sweet!
Thank you!

bhavv · Mar 24, 2008, 07:08 AM // 07:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by RhanoctJocosa

...seeing as it's actually been a good thing for FoW/UW.

If you actually think Ursan is a good thing for fow you fail miserably. Ursan is an EXPLOIT for fow that makes it easier on HM then the ascalon missions are on NM. Ursan is a broken exploit. 7 heroes would actually be more balanced then ursan.

GG to anet for making HM fow the easiest cakewalk in the game to an uber hax chest. /Fail.

Kashrlyyk · Mar 24, 2008, 07:19 AM // 07:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluefeather

I'm one of those who want to have 7 Heroes. But since A-net already made a decision about it, I think I should give it up already.
...

Took them two years of complaining to change favor.